New to biking! Bike not starting!

[seanoconnell87]

DONT mix your spark plug leads around, they are in a certain firing order.  But you may swap spark plugs around and yes they match the exhaust pipes below them . If you have (or could buy) a spare plug with the correct code on it for the bike, like the others . that would be the quickest test to see if it is a duff plug and check the lead is good into the cap...........

Good to know I'll swap the plugs around this evening and see if teh cool pipe follows the plug. One question - what size socket do I need to remove plugs? Same size as a regular car spark plug socket or different?

Just hanging there. There's not a lot of length in it so it would have to had come from somewhere very nearby I'd say. The other end goes towards to the middle of the bike downwards, but out of sight unless I pull off some more parts.

Checked it again this morning and bike fired up after a few clicks and a little throttle. Outside pipe still cold. Do the position of the plugs match the position of the downpipes? So if I re-sit the outside lead on the throttle side of the bike, does this affect the cold pipe? If swapping leads doesn't help, I'll pick up some more tools and swap the plugs around when I get some time. 

Hi Sean Sorry i haven't tweaked this thread yet, where are ya in Dublin i could call out to ya and see what my experience with these bikes could do for ya. If you haven't already i'd replace all electrics. any Honda pre 2000's have dodgy electrics, i'm looking at a 99 vfr 800 and first thing i'll do when i get it is replace reg rec spark's and battery, just saves time when you're on the Auto ban to a ton and your bike sudenly blows up because of dodgy japanese electronics.

Ah Jesus, and I was sure I was the only one on this island with an account here I'm living on the Terenure side of Harolds Cross, but I won't drag you out just yet without trying the basics first! Thanks very much for the offer though, really appreciated, and I'll keep it in mind as a very last resort

Battery is brand new, and kicking strong. Previous owner said plugs were new, but no way to know this for sure in fairness. I'm going to check the leads are properly connected later too, as it could very well be this. 

[greenstiles]

Plug socket is 16mm i think but you may need the correct length one for the bike. Wemoto on the net sells them, if you use a tool kit socket from a socket set, it may have the rubber grip inside, but i've found when you put the plus back in and pull on the socket, it stays there ! as it pops out of the wrench !

[seanoconnell87]

Plug socket is 16mm i think but you may need the correct length one for the bike. Wemoto on the net sells them, if you use a tool kit socket from a socket set, it may have the rubber grip inside, but i've found when you put the plus back in and pull on the socket, it stays there ! as it pops out of the wrench !

Thanks greenstiles, still need to find time to drop into an auto store to pick up a socket set. Checked the lead on the plug  that's causing the problem yesterday and seems fine. Resat it as tight as possible and bike isn't starting again  Seems very intermittent. It's spitting, but just not turning over. Getting frustrated now   

[a_morti]

If when ridden it pulls poorly off tickover but fine after 8k on a full throttle then you likely have a blocked pilot jet.

Plugs are easy enough to swap BUT cost about £9 each. Not to mention the risk of a newbie cross-threading the head.

Do more diagnosis before pulling anything apart but my 50p goes on a blocked pilot jet. To clean these, take the carbs off (you seem to have got most of the way there anyway) then remove all 4 carb bowls (bottoms) as you might as well do the set while you're there. Be careful as the screws are fragile. You can use mole grips to get them out if the head fails.

Use spray carb cleaner from a motor factors (it's much more expensive at halfords!) to clean the bowls. Remove all the jets with a tightly fitting flathead screwdriver. They are made of brass so quite easy to damage. Remove all the emulsion tubes with a 7mm socket (spanners only if you really have to, due to soft metal). Once you have all 4 mains, pilots and emulsion tubes in front of you, clean them like this:

http://www.therevcounter.com/mechanics/68107-carb-cleaner-vs-jets.html#post1430429

Ideally you would soak them for a day or two in carb cleaner, but you don't necessarily have to it just makes it easier.
 
Copper wire is the fella, as this can clean out jets without enlarging the holes. Remember while doing this that brass is VERY soft and easily damaged. The holes in pilot jets are around 0.4mm diameter, if you open it out to 0.45mm then your fuelling will be off, so copper ONLY.

Check / replace your fuel filter while doing this job. I once cleaned a set of fireblade carbs 3 times before realising the fuel filter had failed, which nicely explained how crud was getting into the carbs every time!

[a_morti]

Ok - back in the good books again, and things getting a bit clearer. Took off the tank and checked all the connections in behind the airbox. No problems at all with them so all good there. One things I did notice was a stray pipe, and I'd a quick look around and there looks to be an empty hole roughly the same size as the pipe on a small box just off the air filter. I took a picture but it was pretty dark and taken from a phone so not the best quality. Should be able to make it out though. Any idea?

On the bright side - opened the throttle the tiniest amount before hitting the starter and bike turned over almost immediately. Something so simple, but you learn something every day I suppose.

Once the bike was on for about 10 seconds I checked the downpipes and one is noticeably cooler than the rest. Whereas 3 were pretty hot pretty fast, the outside pipe on the throttle side of the bike was stone cold. Heated up slowly after that. So I'm guessing cleaning the carbs is on the books in any case. Will this cause me trouble until I get a chance to clean them? Any good online guides anywhere for it? Would a carb cleaning product help in any way even? I'm comfortable getting to the carbs, but like everything here, it's all new to me.   

Thanks again for all the help, I'd be going in completely blind otherwise

Not really sure what that is, I don't think any of the original breathers have writing up the sides?!

There should be three pipes to the tank. Fuel hose, big drain, little breather. Both the last two just go down and are open at the bottom.

There should be two little (float bowl) breathers on the carbs. These are long L-shaped tubes which run back across the carb bank then just point down and are open at the bottom.

There is a really big breather off the middle of the carbs which goes into the sub air filter.

There are two big crankcase vents from the bottom of the airbox to the top of the rockerbox cover.

There is one small breather / overflow off the expansion bottle, runs downwards and open at the bottom.

That's all the pipes I can think of for the minute. Unless yours still has the tiny stub of pipe at the bottom of the shock absorber! Have a look and see if your bike is missing any of these tubes.

[seanoconnell87]

Just a quick update on this:

After the last message on this thread, the bike was sitting for a number of months with no work. I'd taken the battery out and stored it, but the poor bike was open to the elements for the last few months. Over Christmas, I took a spin up from home with a trailer and a few buddies and picked the bike up and brought it back to a garage owned by a friend. We spent a total of around 11 hours on her last Saturday carrying out the following work:

- Removed and cleaned the carbs (including all main and pilot jets).
- Removed and scrubbed all plugs and replaced, which was a tight job for the inside 2.
- Checked all electrics, all fine.
- Checked filters - main filter filthy, sub filter disintegrated.
- Oiled some stiff cables.
- Drained the tank completely (petrol yellow) and refilled with fresh petrol.

Once we'd put it all back together, it took a few cranks (I'm guessing to refill the carbs) but fired into life. When not revved immediately after being turned on, it was knocking off straight away, so we readjusted the idle and she's running like a dream now. Have a few bits and pieces to work away on for whenever I'm home, but very happy with the result. Immediate work to be done so any input really appreciated:

- Fork Seals - have picked up a set of aftermarket seals and going to fit the next time I'm home. Are there different types of fork oil or all the same?
- Chain and Sprockets - not sure how to tell if these should be replaced or not, might just need a good cleaning. If so, anyone recommend a good set up? Worth changing the sprockets from stock number of teeth?
- Want to pick up the left and right side control unit, as they're damaged in a few places (choke lever missing, casing cracked etc.). Am I better off looking for a set from someone breaking a bike, or are aftermarket set ups available?

Thanks again guys!

[91cb-1]

Any of the control units from hornets super fours etc fit. i use rock oil 15 weight fork oil. each leg takes just over 500 ml of oil, so a 1 litre isn't going to do it for you. Glad to hear your back on your feet. when the sun comes out again we should go for a spin. I'd keep the standard teeth you can get a good 115-120 mph from the stock chain and sprockets

[greenstiles]

Great news  keep that battery charged as well...........

[seanoconnell87]

Any of the control units from hornets super fours etc fit. i use rock oil 15 weight fork oil. each leg takes just over 500 ml of oil, so a 1 litre isn't going to do it for you. Glad to hear your back on your feet. when the sun comes out again we should go for a spin. I'd keep the standard teeth you can get a good 115-120 mph from the stock chain and sprockets

Good info, cheers. Hopefully will have her complete on the road when the weather gets a bits better and definitely up for a spin then.