Original price?...

[mrbarnacle]

Happy Holidays out there,
Does anybody know what the CB1 list price was in 1989? I just got a clear explanation of the vehicle excise tax here in Maine, and it seems like they figure the original price was around $4700. That seems pretty steep to me. And if you can supply some documentation, maybe I can get some money back, let alone keep paying too much.
Thanks

[mrbones]

Cycle - October '90

The CB-1 FROM HECK

"In addition to reasonably priced hot-rod components, Honda recently knocked $600 off the price of a 1990 CB-1 (from $4298 to $3698), and dropped the price of leftover 1989 models from $4063 to $3498. That makes the CB-1 $1200 to $1400 cheaper than Yamaha's FZR400 and that difference can buy a lot of hop-up parts."

http://www.hondacb1.org/reviews-cycle1090.shtml

[mrbarnacle]

Thanks for the link, mrbones.

I guess the taxman isn't that far off. Looks like I can fight about 80 cents of my bill.

And the info was right under my nose. I read some of the other reviews, remembering that I read them back in '89...but I was more interested in the Hawk, like everyone else, I guess.

I wouldn't trade the CB now. With age comes wisdom.

Happy New Year! 

[mrbones]

No problem. Vehicle excise tax? What is that exactly? We don't have that here in Florida.

[mrbarnacle]

What it is exactly is one of Maine's many taxes. What the money goes to exactly...I can't say. I think it's aimed at road and transportation related stuff. It's a state tax, but administered by the town where you live. For me that's Portland, Maine's largest city, 64,000 pop. (2 hours north of Boston, MA)

Here's what the BMV says...

What is excise tax?

The motor vehicle excise tax is a local tax. Funds raised through the collection of the excise tax remain in your community. The excise tax calculation is based onthe original value of the motor vehicle. For example, passenger vehicle calculations are based on the original sticker price. The excise tax rate is $24.00 per thousand dollars of value the first year, $17.50 the second year, $13.50 the third year, $10.00 the fourth year, $6.50 the fifth year and $4.00 every year thereafter. Please contact your local town or city office for questions about setting the initial value for other vehicles.


There's a movement going on to get excise tax abolished. People aren't happy about paying every year on a vehicle that's depriciating...and it's based on original book value. I bought my '89 CB1 used in '92. I'm at the lowest rate now with my 20 year old bike, so it's the same fee every year...$21 for the registration, $18.80 excise tax, and a $2 "agent fee" for them for collecting my tax. But it's based on the original $4700 price of the bike, even if that's not what I paid for it. If I'm not happy, think about what the people who own Yukons, BMWs and Harleys pay.

So there's a reason to move to Florida.
Plus, it's 5 degrees right now, -14 windchill, here.

Have a great 2009, mrbones. 

[ptlcb1]

Thats crazy!  For situations like that, I think the state, city or town, should have records of what that tax money is spent on, and have those records available to the public, if anyone wants to see just where that money is being spent...

[mrbarnacle]

After my last post I looked around for more info, and found this at the Revenue Services (tax collection) page of the Maine State website...

WHAT IS THE EXCISE TAX?
Excise Tax is an annual tax that must be paid prior to registering your vehicle. Except for a few statutory exemptions, all vehicles registered in the State of Maine are subject to the Excise Tax.
Excise Tax is defined by State Statute as a tax levied annually for the privilege of operating a motor vehicle or camper trailer on the public ways.

WHERE DOES THE EXCISE TAX GO?
The town that collects the excise tax can use it as revenue towards the annual town budget. Typically, the revenue is spent on local road maintenance, construction and repair.

WHY IS THE TAX BASED ON MSRP?
Excise Tax was designed with equity in mind. In 1925, this tax was enacted as a Maine Law. At that time, the Legislature decided that the fairest tax assessment would be based on what the manufacturer suggests it sell for.
This law remained in effect for over 75 years to ensure that everyone who drives the same vehicle pay the same amount of tax.

...so if I spent some time at City Hall, I could probably find out where the money goes.
And I guess if it's going to road maintainance, I can't complain too much about $19 a year for my bike's share.
But there are a number of states (and I don't know what that number is) that get along without the excise tax. There must be some other tax paying for their roads?
Not much is black and white any more, is it?

Except a sunny day, a full tank of gas, and that properly maintained ribbon of asphalt.

[mrbones]

I guess it's not really a lot of money for an older bike, but if you had a newer one it could add up. Especially with automobiles. I own seven motorcycles and if Florida had such a tax, I may not have so many. I don't even need insurance on them to ride them. If that was mandatory, I'd narrow it down to three at least.

[theplumber]

wow Florida is pretty easy going with their bike laws! is that also a state that doesn't require helmets? cuz i know that a few states don't require them.

[mrbarnacle]

Yeah, bones, that's interesting that you don't have to insure them. Can you move a policy from bike to bike, do you pick one bike to cover for the year, do without coverage, or what?

Insurance is mandatory in Maine, but there's no helmet law. They try to pass one every so often (the Governor has a Harley) but United Bikers of Maine has always gotten it knocked down...right to choice.

What about Canada, plumber? Are helmet laws province by province?

[baard]

I've been reading this tread with some interest. Norway has strict laws for basically anything, so helmets are mandatory. In Norway however you don't need insurance to get medical care, as it's covered by social security, so helmets are really a way for the state to protect its investment (the riders head in this case).

As for taxes, we too need to pay them on motor vehicles, and as in Maine the value is calculated from the original list price. However the value of the vehicle is only added to your total "wealth" (or in my case debt), and the taxes are calculated from the whole lot, including house, car, motorcycle, mortgage and loans, wealth and so on...

With regards to insurance, in Norway it's illegal to use (or store in a public area) a motor vehicle without (third party) insurance.

So, the thing I'm really curious about is this; what happens if an uninsured driver or rider hits an innocent third party? Who covers that bill if said driver or rider can't? Is that just tough luck for the innocent party or is he or she taken care of by other means?

[mrbones]

Pretty interesting. Here are the details in Florida.

There's no helmet law in Florida. If you ride without one, you are required to have $10,000 medical insurance. All of my bikes aren't worth the cost to insure them. If any of them get stolen I'm out of luck. If I cause any damage while riding them, I'll be writing a check. I work at home so there is no commute, but if I did have a daily commute I would get liability insurance and uninsured motorist coverage.

If someone hits me and they have insurance, they will be paying my bills. If they don't have insurance and I'm hurt, my own health insurance that I pay for will go in effect. If they wreck my bike, they will have to pay for it. If they don't I have to sue them to make them pay.

At least these are the laws as I understand them, lol.

[mrbarnacle]

Bones, that sounds like the way things play here, and baard, most states (a lot, some?) require a minimum coverage so that anybody you hit or any damage you do is paid for. So if you aren't covered yourself, and not everyone has health insurance to cover them (a subject too large to get into, unless you have some suggestions, baard), your city or state comes to the rescue. Then, as California, and now Maine, are starting to do, they come after you to pay them back. (Back in San Francisco, some hikers got trapped on a cliff, and there were jokes about the Coast Guard heli crew asking them "Visa or Mastercard?" before they let them climb into the rescue basket.)

Bones, how do they work the required $10,000 insurance/no helmet deal? Do you sign a pledge that you'll wear a lid, or do you just have to come up with the insurance proof if you get stopped?

[baard]

I'm sorry if I drag this out but i find this interresting.

So, if I understand correctly, when someone gets hit by an uninsured driver they're always given necessary medical care, without cost. Then the driver (guilty party) is required to pay the cost of that care. If he or she can't pay the state or city is left with the bill? What then in the case of a hit and run?

As for material damage you can sue the guilty party to make him or her pay, but there's no guarantee your losses will be covered? If the guilty party has no means to pay you are quite certain not to get paid for your losses?

I'm not shouting with joy when I pay my insurance bills but at least I know medical care covered no matter what happens, and my bike/car, clothing and everything else is covered if I'm not to blame in an accident. If I hit someone everything is covered by insurance. Afterwards, the insurance company will investigate whether or not I acted responsibly and thus if they can demand some of that money back. At least as long as I drive safely and don't have to use my own insurance it gets cheaper every year.

[mrbarnacle]

Hey baard, I think you have the concept...”when someone gets hit by an uninsured driver they're always given necessary medical care, without cost. Then the driver (guilty party) is required to pay the cost of that care. If he or she can't pay the state or city is left with the bill.” In states where insurance is mandatory, the offending driver will also have Driving Without Insurance added to any traffic violations stemming from the accident.

In the case of a hit and run, if the driver is found the scenario is the same, with the addition of Leaving the Scene of an Accident to any other violations. If the driver isn’t found, the City eats the bill, and our taxes go up.

And yes,...”as for material damage you can sue the guilty party to make him or her pay, but there's no guarantee your losses will be covered. If the guilty party has no means to pay you are quite certain not to get paid for your losses.”

If you have more than minimum auto coverage, your insurance should cover the damge to your vehicle (after paying the deductible). If it’s minimum damage, you might opt to pay for the repairs yourself to cut the chances of your insurance rates going up. (Rates going up sounds common to our two countries.)

A disclaimer...I think this is correct, from what I know of where I’ve lived and my experience, which has, luckily, been fairly shy of accidents and violations.

And don’t worry about dragging this out, baard, I think Norway has their act a little more together in this department than the USA. It would be great to have a “simple” system with everything tied together like that.

Maybe next year.