Message Forums

General Category => Photo Gallery => Topic started by: Pod70 on February 12, 2018, 10:31:36 AM

Title: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on February 12, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Since the demise of Photobucket, there doesn’t seem to be many people posting projects on the forum so I figured I’d start this thread using Flickr to host the images & hopefully inspire a few of you to do the same.
Ok, so here is the latest project a CB-1 mk2. Although I’ve worked on a mk2 before, this is the first one I’ve owned, although it was never really planned for it to come into my possession. Back in the summer it was posted on the Facebook page and the owner was looking for some help getting it back on the road after a minor crash. The bike had gone down on its left hand side but what caused the damage was that it went under an oncoming vehicle which smashed the clutch cover. As he was fairly local I offered to pop over and help him make a list of parts needed that I should be able to supply from my own stash of bits.
As the parts list grew and the amount of work and money mounted up, he decided that it wasn’t worth repairing and that he would sell it for parts. A deal was struck and the bike was wheeled into the back of the van and sat in the shed for quite a few months until I was finally able to get round to sitting it on the bench and looking at it. The plan was for it to be a little project over the Christmas break but life in general and my other bikes had other plans……
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr
The plan is to go through the bike sorting out any issues and get it back on the road again. It’s only going to be a clean-up and repair rather than a full on restoration. Sure I’ve said this before about other projects….

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on February 12, 2018, 10:32:08 AM
The first job was to get it on my homemade ABBAish stand through the front engine mounts to raise the front end (my ABBA stand is too wide for the bench). The plan is to start at the front and work my way back.
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr
Something that definitely needs to be replaced is this exhaust – it looks like something that should be fitted to the underside of a Nissan Micra, not the side of a bike. It doesn’t look home made either as the headers aren’t standard CB-1 so I have no idea where it could have come from. Fortunately I have a decent original exhaust to fit.
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on February 12, 2018, 10:32:57 AM
Here’s the main damage. It looks worse than it is and there is no play or obvious damage to end of the crank as a result. You can see the bent brake pedal which will also need to be replaced.
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr
The clutch cover was removed and binned and the sump dropped for cleaning and inspection of the bottom end of the engine. A replacement flywheel & woodruff key have been fitted and while I was there I pulled the clutch to check the condition of the plates (all good).
There was some discussion on the Facebook page about using the £10 Chinese gasket sets off Ebay etc. The previous owner had bought a set and gave them to me with the bike but here are some photos which should explain why I won’t be using them.
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Aaron - I know that's an NC23 pickup cover but I haven't removed the CB-1 cover yet  ;D

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on February 12, 2018, 10:33:48 AM
The Front brake was seized on solid so this was removed (eventually) and stripped for cleaning and rebuild. The pistons have come up fine with a clean & polish so I just need a new set of seals.
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Spurlock on February 12, 2018, 10:48:21 AM
Thanks for posting Pod70, I'll be interested to- follow along. So I assume you checked the end of the crankshaft for runout? That's a scary looking ding in the flywheel!


Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: filterMan on February 12, 2018, 12:08:10 PM
Looks like a nice little winter project. I wish I had a garage like yours, I particularly like the look of the most important tool in the workshop, the kettle! I have to put up with this freezing weather if my bike goes wrong.

You'll have it ready for the spring then  ;D

Just out of curiosity, where do you buy your gaskets and stuff from?

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Efreeman55 on February 12, 2018, 01:28:51 PM
I'd be really concerned about the end of the crank being bent with that kind of damage to the case and alternator rotor.  I have a spare, low mileage engine I bought along with my CB1 and it also had been down with damage to the alternator cover case.  The damage isn't as bad as yours but it was enough to bend the end of the crank.  Definitely something to check.


Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: a_morti on February 12, 2018, 04:08:03 PM
We all love a project, keep it coming!

I'm also interested in what differences there are between a type one and a type two. You're one of very few people with access to both at the same time and a good eye, so it'll be interesting to see what you find. I know about higher bars, different tank and corresponding single snorkel airbox, the stock type 2 silencer is a little longer, various bits with different/darker finishes. Is the seat the same? Did they modify the footrests to match higher bars (they do this on the SV650/S for example)? Shock is different, is it the same dimensions just with a gas canister, or longer?

I have convertibars on my bike now, they could get to pretty much the height of your bars, with longer cables. Be interested in how the bike feels once complete.

I suspect that exhaust was fairly bling once upon a time, the spring hooks certainly suggest that even if the missing springs don't. Looks JDM, probably fitted to the bike back in Japan. Is the silencer aluminium? I suspect it's better than Dad Morti's bike has on it, he might be interested.

The engine has lighter paint than would expect on a type 2, I suspect it was already changed once in its life. edit: could just be the light

I bought a set of gaskets off Graeme France. He has had a batch of replicas made. Price wasn't quite £10 but cheaper than Honda and you know if it's GF, it'll be fine.

You can use the nc23 ignition cover, assuming it's same as CBR600f1, just fit the single ignition pickup from the CB-1 with some suitable screws.

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on February 13, 2018, 05:28:18 AM
Damage to the end of the crankshaft was my main concern too. I did fabricate a bracket out of angle iron to mount to the crankcase and then sat my dial gauge on that to measure any run-out. it seems to be fine but I forgot to take any photos. It seems to be ok but I won't really know for sure until I fire it up and it's under load. I'll re-jig it & get a photo done. If the worst comes to the worst, I have a few engines spare but most need rebuilding in one way or another.

Normally get my gaskets and a few other bits through Graeme France as like Aaron says, he may not be the cheapest, but you know that the parts will be good quality.

Filterman - I've waited years to get a garage like this sorted out. It's only a single but it has power & light although there are normally a few bikes in there so you have move things out and around to get jobs done. I seem to spend as much time moving stuff out of the way as I do working on the bikes. Unfortunately the 'kettle' is a fuel jug so wouldn't want to be drinking out of that  :D

Aaron - I'll try and make notes of any differences but I think you've listed the main ones and it does look like this bike has been modified quite a bit over time so has probably lost some original bits along the way - look at the Chinese front master cylinder & levers for example. My 1st CB-1 came with the same canister type rear shock & even had a bracket mounted to the frame to take the canister.

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on April 05, 2018, 08:50:38 AM
Ok so this one got off to a bit of a false start and with the weather we had in February & March, I did struggle to build up the enthusiasm to head out into the garage. When I have been there, it was to work on other bikes.

Race season has approached pretty quickly so the NC23 race bike has taken priority and needed a replacement gearbox to solve the problems with jumping out of 5th. Unfortunately to get at the gearbox means stripping down the whole engine and you end up with this
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Interestingly enough, the gear clusters (and ratios) for the NC27 & NC23 are the same despite the 27 using a 17" wheel and the 23 an 18". The only difference between the engines is therefore the cylinder heads & carbs, a lightened clutch basket in the 23 and the water pumps (the 23 has additional take-offs for the oil cooler behind the oil filter which is missing on the NC27)

I took the NC23 for it's first test run at Lydden Hill 2 weekends ago and it seems to be running great. Not the best circuit for testing as it's only 1 mile long and you only really use 2nd, 3rd & 4th but the session the previous weekend at Snetteron was cancelled due to snow on the track!

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Dash on April 06, 2018, 02:24:12 AM
Snow :D

So annoying when the weather decides to be a d*ck

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on April 10, 2018, 07:37:46 AM
I had nothing planned for the Easter break so now that the race bike is up and running, what better than to crack on with the NC27?
Well Friday was taken up with a few odd jobs on the NC23 and sorting out the van ready for it's service on Saturday (there were jobs that I knew the garage would contact me about to add as extras to the service, so I figured I'd do them myself to save a few pounds).

The Van came back from the service with an advisory on the brakes so needs new pads, front discs, rear shoes & rear slave cylinders are required. so these were duly ordered. My Dad also popped over for a visit so we went out for the day to the Royal Engineers Museum in Chatham and spent the day looking at tanks and other cool military stuff - well worth a visit if you're in the area.

Sunday - I finally made it into the garage and managed to pull the little 27 out of its corner  :D The plan was to take apart the front end and so first off were the clip-ons. It would appear that Honda have borrowed these from another model (VFR750 perhaps?) and the lower locating lugs would foul the bolt for the top yokes so Honda have added an additional spacer

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

The top yoke came off and the list of damaged parts slowly revealed itself:
Clocks (not enough remaining to bother photographing)
Headlight Frame, Rubber Top Hats & Alloy Brackets
Choke Lever
Clutch Cable
Clutch Lever Mount
Grips (these were pretty grubby and worn anyway)

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on April 10, 2018, 08:44:23 AM
Next job was to remove the forks and check the stations with a straight edge. These have survived the crash and thankfully are straight so that's one less thing to worry about thankfully. I'll check the length against another pair of forks but at a guess, I'd say they are about 25mm longer than those on a mk1. the fork oil didn't look too bad but I'll drain & replace this while I've got the forks out.

The steering felt a bit notchy so I pulled the yokes out and found that the bottom bearing was past its best and there were notches in the outer race on the top race so these had to go and a new set has been ordered.

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Another casualty of the crash was the Ignition Barrel. A chunk has been taken out of the casing around the steering lock and it looks like someone has taken a screwdriver to the lock in the past.

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

A quick rummage through the spares stash soon turned up a replacement Chinese lock. Unfortunately the Chinese lock has a 2 pin connector and a bullet connector on the fan motor feed rather than the 3 pin connector on the Honda lock so I'll have to modify the wiring to suit

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

One of my pet hates is switchgear that moves around on the handlebars and for some reason, someone had cut the locating lug off of the L/H switchgear allowing it to rotate. I have no idea why they did this as the locating hole is in the clip-ons >:(

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

I carefully drilled and tapped remains of the pin to take an M3 screw so that the head would now serve as the locating pin. The head is a little big bigger than the plastic pin so the hole in the clip-on was enlarged to suit

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Whilst I was there I gave the switches a good clean and blast of contact cleaner.

As there isn't much else I could do until the replacement head bearings arrive, I treated the forks & bottom yoke to a quick rub down, prime and few coats of black paint. They had been painted over in the past and were suffering from quite a few stone chips.

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

All in all, not a bad days work

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on April 10, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Bank holiday Monday and as I was waiting on parts for the van, I was able to spend a few more hours on this. Obviously I couldn't do anything more with the front end so I moved back and set to on removing the airbox to reveal a rather grubby air filter element.

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Although these are fairly readily available through the likes of Wemoto, CMSNL & David Silver spares for around £25, I decided to employ the patented Amorti foam replacement method and whilst it's been documented before, I'm sure the accompanying photos have been lost to Photobucket, so here's the procedure:

1). Take a Stanley knife and cut out the paper element
2). Using the Stanley knife and some sandpaper clean up the opening and remove as much of the remains of the paper element as possible. You won't remove it all as it is moulded into the plastic.

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

3). Cut a new element from a sheet of Filter foam. This needs to be a few mm bigger than the opening in the filter body so it can expand to fill any irregularities in the opening
4). Using some silicon gasket sealant, bond the short edges in place - this got a bit messier than I would have liked due to using an old tube of sealant but it's now not going anywhere.

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

After that the carbs were stripped ready for a dip in the ultrasonic cleaner and a new set of O-rings courtesy of Blair at Litetek. A few other parts were removed and the next job is to check the valve clearances

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on April 10, 2018, 09:03:35 AM
( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Continued the stripping down until I got to this point to check the valve clearances - Amazingly they were all within tolerance and nothing further was required.

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: a_morti on April 10, 2018, 04:46:26 PM
Looking good. Interesting with those bar spacers, wonder what they were off.

Do the longer forks give same ride height ; does the extra length disappear in that bar and spacer?

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on April 11, 2018, 05:32:44 AM
Hi Aaron,

The extra length is above the top yoke, so is only there to accommodate the bars & spacers as far as I can see. Once I've got the front end together, I'll compare the measurements with my other CB-1 but suspect that the ride height etc. is the same

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: See Bee-Won on April 13, 2018, 04:46:14 PM
Good idea using foam for the air cleaner. Should breath much better than that restrictive paper element. Might lean it out just a smidgen though.

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on May 10, 2018, 05:32:56 AM
Well I've decided that this thread should be re-named Andy's excuses for not fixing the CB-1 as I haven't touched this since Easter, however I have been busy so here are some other bits...

We had our first race of the year at Silverstone on the 7th & 8th April. Practice went well on the Friday and Qualifying was pretty good too. I was actually feeling really confident & comfortable on the bike for the first time since my big tumble at Oulton last year. In the 1st race I managed to knock 0.9 seconds of my qualifying time and a further 0.36 second off in the 2nd race. Still very much at the back of the grid but happy with that.

Sunday was a different story. It was wet (but not raining) in the morning so I decided to stick the Avon AM22/23 tyres on the bike which are kind of an intermediate tyre because I figured the track would dry too much and shred my brand new wet tyres to bits (yes I know cheapskate!) Before we were due to go out of course it started raining so I changed the front for the wet tyre but didn't manage to change the rear - should be alright surely - Err NO, the back end was sliding and spinning up all over the place and I really had no choice but to nurse the bike through the session as people were crashing all round me. For the second race we were sent back to the pits after the sighting lap as there was petrol over the track. When we restarted, it felt a bit weird sitting on the grid surrounded by detergent bubbles from the clean-up and everything felt scarily slippy. Started off not enjoying myself and had definitely lost my mojo until the race leader lapped me and I thought well if he do it, I can at least make more of an effort too. Amazingly picking up the pace made everything easier and I was just getting back into it when the red flag came out.
Anyway here's a few gratuitous racing pics:

( ( 2 ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

( ( 1 ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

Oh yes and sorry Jim, it didn't dawn on me until after the meeting who you were - can't believe you are racing a ZXR though, Not good enough  ;D

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on May 10, 2018, 05:50:20 AM
A bank holiday weekend - the perfect opportunity to get on with the CB-1, What more could you want? My neighbour owns his own welding & fabrication business and we often help each other out so when he knocked on my door on Friday evening asking if I could make him some bits on the lathe, I was happy to help. Initially he wanted some 12mm diameter bars drilling, countersinking and tapping to M5, some steel balls drilled & tapped to M8 and some further bars threaded to for the balls to screw onto. No problem and an hour later I was knocking on his door to hand the metal bits back.

He was off to see someone about a job for Tottenham FC making new coat hooks for the changing rooms and needed to show the client some samples. He asked if he got the job, could I make some more?

He obviously got the job as Sunday morning at 6.30 he was ringing my doorbell and holding a heavy sack of metal and apologising that they were needed in the next few days as he only has 2 weeks to fabricate, powder coat & install them. The good news is that the customer was happy with the samples but wanted the balls welding in place so they only needed drilling & not tapping, the bad news, there was 160 balls & 40 of the rods to be drilled out & tapped to M5. Oh yeah & I had a hangover......

( ( ( by pod_70 (, on Flickr

On Monday I had a little trip down to South Wales to pick up another NC23. I of course chose the hottest day of the year to spend 7 hours in a van with no air conditioning but set off early and got home before most people hit the roads in the afternoon, so not a bad journey
So this is how I spent my bank holiday - Still no progress on the CB-1

Title: Re: CB-1 Mk2 Project
Post by: Pod70 on May 10, 2018, 08:36:39 AM
So will there be any progress soon? I doubt it as I'm off to Anglesey this weekend and racing at Snetterton next weekend. Still there's another bank holiday soon but I really need to do something about the jungle that my garden is turning into.