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Author Topic: Pilot Idle Mixture Screws  (Read 985 times)
JamesM
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« on: January 09, 2017, 07:51:40 AM »

Hey guys,

Seeing some recent posts regarding carb parts and previous threads about the unavailability of pilot idle mixture screws, I decided to email www.allensperformance.co.uk to see if they could source the 16016-KAF-670 Pilot Screw Set for the CB-1's Keihin VG06 carbs.

A helpful chap emailed back and said "We are in the after market for keihin and have no way to access Honda epc or micro fishes so we usually direct our customers to Lings Honda, if they are unable to help you could send me a picture of the mixture screw with dimensions on it length, thread size and pitch we can have a look through the stock to see if we can help."

I contacted Lings Honda and indeed it is a discontinued part and they had no stock. I've searched all over and it appears to be the same everywhere.

I put my carbs back together awhile ago so was wondering if anyone has a loose CB-1 idle mixture screw lying about that they wouldn't mind photographing and measuring? I have no idea how you measure thread size and pitch.

Are these idle mixture screws really totally unique to the CB1's Keihin VG06 carbs do you think?

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a_morti
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 01:36:16 PM »

I'm not sure how unique they are but I'm pretty sure the two central ones aren't the same as the outside two.
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Cam Drive Gear Train Smiley
Velos
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 05:04:15 PM »

Try to look at saito repair kit:
https://m.louis.de/en/artikel/carburettor-repair-kit-diverse-models/10042430?list=126555415

Some of them includes this screw.
But this screw seems to be unique for CB-1...
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JamesM
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 08:23:13 AM »

Hey all,

I've been doing more searching and had turned up various jetting kits but nothing with the air mixture screw...until I found this!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Keihin-the-carb-air-screw-for-a-variety-of-carburetor-CVK-CBR-CB-1-GR-PD26JS/32543105126.html?spm=2114.search0306.4.16.n2cHww

And also this kit made in China:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carburetor-Repair-Kit-Needle-Main-Jet-Set-for-HONDA-CB400-CB-1-400CC-/112454412676?hash=item1a2ece2984:g:eUoAAOSwJ4hY~Tsq

The dimensions seem to check out between the two sites, except the AliExpress one seems to have a longer head.

Without knowing the actual dimensions of the stock screws, I can't say for sure if these are right (or if the inner two carb screws are different to the outers).

I'm planning on pulling my carbs and splitting the bank later in the year to see if I can remove the old screw, but trying to avoid having to fork out for a whole 2nd set. I'll get some measurements then unless anyone has carbs loose at the moment?

Also, I just ordered a set of JIS too   Grin

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Drew m
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 02:51:46 PM »

I've just built my carbs back up, I didn't take measurements but 2 inners are definitely different from outers, 2  are longer, can't remember which.
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 08:41:18 PM »

Can't help you with your screw question, but I can share this link with everyone:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/jis-screwdrivers/

I'm still looking for the best one, but my CB-1 has a full toolkit including a Japanese screwdriver in great condition.

Good luck with your search. Lots of patience and a long soak in that carb regeneration juice seems to be the answer - plus JIS of course.
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a_morti
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 08:07:21 AM »

I got myself some vessel screwdrivers. Made in Japan,  but there was something about JIS no longer being recognised so they don't necessarily write that on the packing - still made to the same recipe though and work like a charm.

Ebay search vessel megadora and you'll  it.
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Cam Drive Gear Train Smiley
JamesM
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 08:12:57 AM »

Cheers guys. I had a look in the workshop manual last night and there was a note saying 2 air screws are shorter on Canada models apparently (can't remember if it was the inner or outer 2). I wonder if that means they are all the same length on the Japanese spec.

I can't find another set of carbs in the UK at the moment so I might take a gamble on those screws from aliexpress. They don't cost a lot and you get two in a pack, so I won't be too horrified if they don't fit! I'll report back

Nice on the webbikeworld link ModerateFkr, I read that before buying mine.

I went for the Vessel Megadora P1,P2,P3 set too a_morti, after reading this - http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/jis-screwdrivers/vessel-jis-screwdrivers.htm
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 08:17:38 AM by JamesM » Logged
ModerateFkr
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 11:03:45 AM »

Cheers guys. I had a look in the workshop manual last night and there was a note saying 2 air screws are shorter on Canada models apparently (can't remember if it was the inner or outer 2). I wonder if that means they are all the same length on the Japanese spec.

I can't find another set of carbs in the UK at the moment so I might take a gamble on those screws from aliexpress. They don't cost a lot and you get two in a pack, so I won't be too horrified if they don't fit! I'll report back

Nice on the webbikeworld link ModerateFkr, I read that before buying mine.

I went for the Vessel Megadora P1,P2,P3 set too a_morti, after reading this - http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/jis-screwdrivers/vessel-jis-screwdrivers.htm

You're welcome JamesM. I thought it interesting but not at all surprising the bike shop had that attitude with the author over even the very existence of the JIS. How many times have we met that attitude? Part of the British disease I'm afraid. That's why it's so refreshing to meet the polar opposite, as I did recently in my local Cromwell Tools depot. The guy told me he got the job because his brother-in-law is the manager, after being made redundant, and that he's not getting a lot of sleep because he has a 4 month old baby. Hes also a big lad who clearly finds it an effort to dash around the place. An obvious potential recipe for some impatience if nothing else, right?

But when I ordered a compression tester and it failed to arrive in time for THREE revisits by myself, due to not being included on the daily dispatch, he was very honest and gave a bunch of freebies - partially for not being rude to him about it. And I ended up not buying it because it didn't have a 10mm adapter.

Thank you for the tip on the Vessel Megadora P1,P2,P3. Do let us know how good they are. Drivers are all about material and machining quality and handle shpe. Those FAKE 'ergonomic' three sided ones make me almost homicidal! What ort of fool thought tht was a good idea?

The human hand naturally forms a square when forefinger is closed to the thumb. However, for driving woodscrews, the old fashioned bulbous oval in beech is impossible to beat. A few years ago I found that Stanley still made Pozidriv screwdrivers with blue plastic bulbous oval handles.

When I'm working on a car or a bike, I prefer driver handles that resist rolling when placed on a less than level surface, yet don't send a jolt of pain as I try to undo over tightened or seized screws. That's a balance. The handle on my Honda toolkit driver is too small and a bit sharp - but it doesn't roll too easily Smiley.


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Drew m
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 11:30:37 AM »

Mines a Japanese import and it's got 2 different size mixture screws, unless someone's replaced them.
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 11:32:23 AM »

This looks interesting, but it's Philips not JIS:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/2110283928?iid=291974560776&trdt=0&rdtsrc=vi

Two ended hex drive, made in Japan, UK business seller: 6 inc postage.
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JamesM
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 08:42:05 AM »

Vessel screwdrivers arrived today, the quality looks really good. Will try them out this weekend as going to do a few maintenance jobs on the bike.

Also I've just ordered x4 air screws from that AliExpress seller in China for princely sum of 7.06 (inc delivery). It's a punt but if it works its a good source for anyone needing these elusive screws in the future  Cool

Delivery time is 20-40 days though, so watch this space!
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JamesM
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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 03:47:07 AM »

Mines a Japanese import and it's got 2 different size mixture screws, unless someone's replaced them.

That's interesting on the different lengths on your Japanese model. The manual mentions the Canadian model has different lengths, but says nothing about the Japanese spec (you'd think by the fact they've pointed out the Canada model is different, that would imply the Japanese model had same length screws).

Anyway, the screws arrived from China yesterday, they look good quality and the guy sent me an extra one for free, but I've no idea if they are gonna fit.

Busy at the moment (first baby on the way!) but will report back when I've had a chance to pull the carbs and removed an existing working screw to compare. If they are the right fit, I'll then strip down carb 4, get some heat on it and finally try to remove the stuck screw  Cool
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Drew m
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 08:02:38 AM »

I can adjust my 2 outer screws easily, from memory I think I could remove them,(not near the bike just now) in situ, I wonder if I emailed dimensions of the 2 other screws if he could source them,did you have any  easily understood correspondence with him.
Cheers
Drew
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JamesM
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 08:12:33 AM »

If the the outer air screws be removed in situ that is great as I'll unscrew one to compare without having to dismantle the bike.

I didn't have any correspondence with the seller directly in China, I just ordered the screws though AliExpress here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Keihin-the-carb-air-screw-for-a-variety-of-carburetor-CVK-CBR-CB-1-GR-PD26JS/32543105126.html?spm=2114.search0306.4.16.n2cHww

The description reckons they fit CBR + CB-1, but it could be wrong. I found a few other kits however on ebay (aftermarket from China) and compared the measurements which all matched, so I took a risk and bought some.

I've no idea about the 2 screws that are a different size though, mine might be the same but it was a few years ago I had mine apart so can't remember.

Silly question but do you know if I'd need to drain the fuel from the carb before removing the air screw?
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