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Author Topic: Need help asap with rear shock: To Blackbird or not to Blackbird?  (Read 1818 times)
Dash
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2017, 08:23:45 AM »

Mike fellows posted about it on the cb-1 facebook group. His bike is working fine with bb shock.

Allright! thanks a lot!

Very, very happy news indeed. Did he happen to mention if its a bolt on job or did he need to get creative?
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2017, 08:35:29 AM »

Mike fellows posted about it on the cb-1 facebook group. His bike is working fine with bb shock.

Thank you a_morti, I don't know Mike Fellows from a hedge sparrow, but I've read enough of your posts to trust your knowledge and judgement, especially on CB-1 matters.

This is the confirmation I needed regarding the Blackbird shock. Now I'm definitely going to buy one. Hope the item I was watching is still available.
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Pod70
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2017, 08:51:39 AM »

this Link shows that the Blackbird does have a linkage but as discussed in the past, the Blackbird is a heavier bike than the CB-1 and designed to be ridden 2 up loaded with luggage so will have a heavy spring rate even though it has a linkage system.

https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cbr1100xx-superblackbird-1999-x-usa-california_model7258/partslist/F++26.html#results

Should be ok (and Mike seems happy with his) but I have only ever tried the Fireblade shock with CB-1 spring so can't say for sure.
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Dash
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2017, 08:53:42 AM »

Morti, can you send the link of Mike Fellows' facebook post regarding the blackbird shock?

Not that I dont trust you, But Id like to see if he mentions anything about mounting the thing in the CB-1.
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spacetiger
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2017, 10:36:28 AM »

They are different bikes, but from the YSS shock database:

 HONDA    CB400 F / CB 1   '                        89-90   MS   310-320

 HONDA    CBR 1100 XX Super-Blackbird   '97-07   MS   325-335
 HONDA    VTR 1000 SP I / II                   '00-06   MS   325-335

So the database suggests they are the same length.

When you look at them, they are different



So if I scaled them correctly, the Blackbird shock is just a tad bit longer (probably similar to the CBR900 shock in length) BUT, the VTR is too long.

So the blackbird does look like it would fit.... but I would say the CBR900 is still the better shock (bigger body, compression adjustability advantages)

If you go this route, post back how it worked out.
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VintageHunter
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2017, 11:04:29 AM »

great graphical comparison Spacetiger. really.
Now, you state the VTR shock is "too long"? but is it that it the CB1 can not be pushed that far apart at the swing arm? or is it that it just wont fit from eyelet to eyelet? Or is it that if inserted, the rear end will be touching the sky?
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spacetiger
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2017, 11:59:37 AM »

To get the VTR shock in, you'd have to raise the bike up so the swingarm could be lowered to drop the rear axle about 6".  Then you could bolt the shock in.  When you lowered the bike down on the wheels, the rear would compress some based on the weight of the bike and what spring you had on the shock - but the rear would likely be 3.5 to 4" higher.



Because of the way the shock mounts in (see insert graphic in chart), it doesn't have to change length much to creat a big change at the rear axle.

Jerry
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 12:05:25 PM by spacetiger » Logged
ModerateFkr
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2017, 12:08:59 PM »

They are different bikes, but from the YSS shock database:

 HONDA    CB400 F / CB 1   '                        89-90   MS   310-320

 HONDA    CBR 1100 XX Super-Blackbird   '97-07   MS   325-335
 HONDA    VTR 1000 SP I / II                   '00-06   MS   325-335

So the database suggests they are the same length.

When you look at them, they are different
L


So if I scaled them correctly, the Blackbird shock is just a tad bit longer (probably similar to the CBR900 shock in length) BUT, the VTR is too long.

So the blackbird does look like it would fit.... but I would say the CBR900 is still the better shock (bigger body, compression adjustability advantages)

If you go this route, post back how it worked out.

Thanks Jerry. That's also very helpful. I trust you got that I was in no way discounting your overall superior knowledge on the mechanical aspects of these shocks. By my acknowledgement of a_morti's testimony I'm making the distinction between hearsay and conjecture, and a reliable report of an actual example of a successful deployment of a specific shock in a specific setup.

Hopefully, by winter time I will be able to play at maybe 25% of your game on these things, and try to implement some of the solutions you've researched here. But right now I'm learning, and looking for a quick, low cost one unit, zero modification solution to the half wrung out sponge feel that my fat ass is causing my CB-1 to exhibit. It's very much a confidence thing all round. Plus my tools are spread out over three locations including my car! Lots to sort out.
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2017, 12:28:52 PM »

They are different bikes, but from the YSS shock database:

 HONDA    CB400 F / CB 1   '                        89-90   MS   310-320

 HONDA    CBR 1100 XX Super-Blackbird   '97-07   MS   325-335
 HONDA    VTR 1000 SP I / II                   '00-06   MS   325-335

So the database suggests they are the same length.

When you look at them, they are different



So if I scaled them correctly, the Blackbird shock is just a tad bit longer (probably similar to the CBR900 shock in length) BUT, the VTR is too long.

So the blackbird does look like it would fit.... but I would say the CBR900 is still the better shock (bigger body, compression adjustability advantages)

If you go this route, post back how it worked out.

Do you know how much play has Blackbird shock has got Jerry?

It looks to be shrouded by a larger tube.

If I can get one for an affordable offer, I will be going this route initially. It's the fact that the BB is a much heavier machine designed for two up touring with luggage, that initially suggested to me that it could cope with me - with the correct BB spring and whilst hopefully still on one of the lower settings. This would be in contrast to the standard shock being like a sponge on '7' - the top setting now. I'm pretty much convinced this is a solution. Maybe not the greatest, but I will indeed report all grabable data here, or in a new thread, and you can add it to yours if you consider it useful.
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spacetiger
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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2017, 12:34:04 PM »

MF,

I was in error. I posted to clarify the difference between the 2 shocks. I clearly was trusting in the YSS database and had a VTR shock, so I thought they were same length. But they are not.

I would say VH has best straight forward fix for lest effort change. As soon as he posts I add how to remove the stout spring without a press.
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spacetiger
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« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2017, 12:42:19 PM »

Mf, the plastic tube is there to protect the shock shaft.  The blackbird isn't a real heavy bike is it?  I would have guessed it Only 60 lbs or so than the CBC-1. In any case the angle of the mount and linkage really doesn't drive you to a stout spring. Can-1 has no help so it needs a stout spring. At your weight, I'd say you need at least a 1,500 lb/in.

I'd guess the bb stroke to be similar to VTR - see side by pic. So say about 2"?
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2017, 02:33:17 PM »

Mf, the plastic tube is there to protect the shock shaft.  The blackbird isn't a real heavy bike is it?  I would have guessed it Only 60 lbs or so than the CBC-1. In any case the angle of the mount and linkage really doesn't drive you to a stout spring. Can-1 has no help so it needs a stout spring. At your weight, I'd say you need at least a 1,500 lb/in.

I'd guess the bb stroke to be similar to VTR - see side by pic. So say about 2"?

That's the surprising thing Jerry. Depending whether it's a '97 or a '99, according to my reckoning the Blackbird is actually 143-150lbs (wet) heavier than the CB-1 (wet). And that's without luggage. That's the reason I like it as a potential solution.

I take your point about the angle of deployment. That's quite likely to be a local mount stress reduction choice.

And I believe it's worth looking at those wet weight differences in terms of percentage of the weights of both bikes, as well as the combined weights of two up - which is what the BB is intended for. I see surplus capacity there, even in a CB-1. I'm hoping I'm right.

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VintageHunter
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« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2017, 02:40:01 PM »

the BB is a YUGE of beast bike. it is heavy and certainly heavier than the CB1. Wet or dry...it's heavier. which is a good point there on the "surplus" for the shock transplant. it's good to know there are more than one option as an alternate rear shock replacement for the CB1. Always good to have more choices for this little beaut.
Mf, the plastic tube is there to protect the shock shaft.  The blackbird isn't a real heavy bike is it?  I would have guessed it Only 60 lbs or so than the CBC-1. In any case the angle of the mount and linkage really doesn't drive you to a stout spring. Can-1 has no help so it needs a stout spring. At your weight, I'd say you need at least a 1,500 lb/in.

I'd guess the bb stroke to be similar to VTR - see side by pic. So say about 2"?

That's the surprising thing Jerry. Depending whether it's a '97 or a '99, according to my reckoning the Blackbird is actually 143-150lbs (wet) heavier than the CB-1 (wet). And that's without luggage. That's the reason I like it as a potential solution.

I take your point about the angle of deployment. That's quite likely to be a local mount stress reduction choice.

And I believe it's worth looking at those wet weight differences in terms of percentage of the weights of both bikes, as well as the combined weights of two up - which is what the BB is intended for. I see surplus capacity there, even in a CB-1. I'm hoping I'm right.


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« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2017, 03:09:49 PM »

Morti, can you send the link of Mike Fellows' facebook post regarding the blackbird shock?

Not that I dont trust you, But Id like to see if he mentions anything about mounting the thing in the CB-1.
You may need to join the group, which is no bad thing anyways.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1119747858086718?view=permalink&id=1231250040269832
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Dash
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« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2017, 03:40:33 PM »

Morti, can you send the link of Mike Fellows' facebook post regarding the blackbird shock?

Not that I dont trust you, But Id like to see if he mentions anything about mounting the thing in the CB-1.
You may need to join the group, which is no bad thing anyways.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1119747858086718?view=permalink&id=1231250040269832

You re my hero right now.

That Mike fellow seems to be happy with it and answered the questions I needed answering in his facebook posts. Even our weight is almost the same. 160 lbs = app. 72 kg. Im 70 kg. so those 2 kilos difference aren t going to mess things up I reckon.

Could I be this lucky..?
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