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Author Topic: Need help asap with rear shock: To Blackbird or not to Blackbird?  (Read 1149 times)
VintageHunter
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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2017, 05:39:04 PM »

1983 says you....?
uhhh trust me, yer a kid....still.
try being born very close to the 50's.....then we'll chat.


[/quote]
I'm not sure I count as a kid any more, I'm from 1983. Weighed myself today though and I'm a few ounces over 11 stone, that's just under 155 in American and just under 70kg in modern money.

I certainly used to weigh less, but not sure I would even want to dip under 150.
[/quote]
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2017, 07:36:13 PM »

as recent as 1997? that was freakin 20 years ago mate. In 20 years....we all have gotten a bit, well......more.
A_morti is still a kid. Give him....Ohhh...I dunno....another 15 or 20 years and he'll be as round as hound, like the rest of us. Wink
ISTR Mike is around 150, which is 2/3 of your weight. Seems to make sense you'd need a stronger spring. It's not clear to me whether a blackbird shock with stock rate 1,100 and only partial damping control would work great with a 1,500 spring. Also not clear to me whether a Cbr shock with stock spring 800, even with full adjustability, could competently manage a 1,500 Spring without changing the valving. Space tiger certainly seems to be the man to work that out. (All those Spring numbers are guesstimated on the spot from rough rememberings)

I guess us skinny guys (I'm somewhere round 160) have the advantage in the search for a cheap replacement upgrade!

Yes, I hate you a_morti!!!;-)))) As recently as 1997, I was as skinny as you because I was cycling 20-30 miles a day - at speed. I was competing with commuter traffic easily. My bike had excellent road tyres on and I kept them inflated at 65-70 psi!! That makes a huge difference.

Anyway, the lesson is bro, don't get unfit, stay active. Limited rear shock options is only a small part of the downside of getting lazy - as I did.




Those 20 years just flew by VintageHunter! But I've learned more in that time than all the years before. Somewhere between 'We busted out of class, had to get away from those fools, learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school', and 9/11, I thought I knew everything, I was wrong. There was a shitload more work to do. It's ongoing, and the learning curve is steep.

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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2017, 08:32:52 PM »

1983 says you....?
uhhh trust me, yer a kid....still.
try being born very close to the 50's.....then we'll chat.


I'm not sure I count as a kid any more, I'm from 1983. Weighed myself today though and I'm a few ounces over 11 stone, that's just under 155 in American and just under 70kg in modern money.

I certainly used to weigh less, but not sure I would even want to dip under 150.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I suspect I'm the oldest here. Bill Haley was in the charts when I was born ;-))
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Dash
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« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2017, 09:35:18 AM »

Ok, you bunch of oldies, I fitted the shock.

Its a CBR 1100 XX Blackbird shock. It has a liniar spring and stands 320mm tall. It has adjustable dampening and other stuff I dont know wtf Im talking about.  Grin It lacks a piggyback resevoir or other fancy gimmicks. I was told all Blackbird models use the same rear shock. So model year shouldn t make a difference.

What I do know is the following:

- it fits. bolt on job. 1 on 1 without any problems. Use the CB-1's bolts n nuts to mount it
- no need to vile anywhere like Mike Fellows posted on the CB-1 facebook: all adjustment screws are reachable when mounting as-is it seems
- 30 mins work with the help of a winch
- bike stands taller than standard but the same height as my previous unknown frankenshock (which was also 320 mm tall, incidently). Fitting a Blackbird shock -will- require you to fit a longer sidestand due to lean angle & tipping over.
- for my weight (70 KG) it seems to be working just fine. Its not sagging or bottoming out or behaving out of the ordinary. it feels firm and planted so far (couldnt ride hard on the test trip: wet roads)
- I didnt adjust any settings: seems perfectly balanced from the get go (cannot confirm if the previous owner of the shock has been fiddling with the settings)

Cost me 50 for the shock and 23 to fit it at the shop where I did most of the work meself.

Gonna depart for Brno racetrack tomorrow. Will report back after giving Ceebee a proper trashing.

If I dont report back at all, feel free to assume a Blackbird shock on a CB-1 is NOT reccomended for track use. Roll Eyes
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2017, 11:55:28 AM »

Ok, you bunch of oldies, I fitted the shock.

Its a CBR 1100 XX Blackbird shock. It has a liniar spring and stands 320mm tall. It has adjustable dampening and other stuff I dont know wtf Im talking about.  Grin It lacks a piggyback resevoir or other fancy gimmicks. I was told all Blackbird models use the same rear shock. So model year shouldn t make a difference.

What I do know is the following:

- it fits. bolt on job. 1 on 1 without any problems. Use the CB-1's bolts n nuts to mount it
- no need to vile anywhere like Mike Fellows posted on the CB-1 facebook: all adjustment screws are reachable when mounting as-is it seems
- 30 mins work with the help of a winch
- bike stands taller than standard but the same height as my previous unknown frankenshock (which was also 320 mm tall, incidently). Fitting a Blackbird shock -will- require you to fit a longer sidestand due to lean angle & tipping over.
- for my weight (70 KG) it seems to be working just fine. Its not sagging or bottoming out or behaving out of the ordinary. it feels firm and planted so far (couldnt ride hard on the test trip: wet roads)
- I didnt adjust any settings: seems perfectly balanced from the get go (cannot confirm if the previous owner of the shock has been fiddling with the settings)

Cost me 50 for the shock and 23 to fit it at the shop where I did most of the work meself.

Gonna depart for Brno racetrack tomorrow. Will report back after giving Ceebee a proper trashing.

If I dont report back at all, feel free to assume a Blackbird shock on a CB-1 is NOT reccomended for track use. Roll Eyes

Thanks Dash, you cheeky young lightweight ;-)) Ride safe bro and collect data on the BB/CB-1 wedding. Even if I can't benefit from this solution, I'm still interested. Do you know which setting you have it on?

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a_morti
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« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2017, 12:48:20 PM »

Ok, you bunch of oldies, I fitted the shock.

Its a CBR 1100 XX Blackbird shock. It has a liniar spring and stands 320mm tall. It has adjustable dampening and other stuff I dont know wtf Im talking about.  Grin It lacks a piggyback resevoir or other fancy gimmicks. I was told all Blackbird models use the same rear shock. So model year shouldn t make a difference.

What I do know is the following:

- it fits. bolt on job. 1 on 1 without any problems. Use the CB-1's bolts n nuts to mount it
- no need to vile anywhere like Mike Fellows posted on the CB-1 facebook: all adjustment screws are reachable when mounting as-is it seems
- 30 mins work with the help of a winch
- bike stands taller than standard but the same height as my previous unknown frankenshock (which was also 320 mm tall, incidently). Fitting a Blackbird shock -will- require you to fit a longer sidestand due to lean angle & tipping over.
- for my weight (70 KG) it seems to be working just fine. Its not sagging or bottoming out or behaving out of the ordinary. it feels firm and planted so far (couldnt ride hard on the test trip: wet roads)
- I didnt adjust any settings: seems perfectly balanced from the get go (cannot confirm if the previous owner of the shock has been fiddling with the settings)

Cost me 50 for the shock and 23 to fit it at the shop where I did most of the work meself.

Gonna depart for Brno racetrack tomorrow. Will report back after giving Ceebee a proper trashing.

If I dont report back at all, feel free to assume a Blackbird shock on a CB-1 is NOT reccomended for track use. Roll Eyes

I also weigh 70kg, so I am interested in your results!

Have a great time at Brno.
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Dash
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« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2017, 01:30:29 PM »

Quote

Thanks Dash, you cheeky young lightweight ;-)) Ride safe bro and collect data on the BB/CB-1 wedding. Even if I can't benefit from this solution, I'm still interested. Do you know which setting you have it on?



Ive no idea. I havent changed anything. But I cant guarentee its previous owner also left it alone.

Ok, you bunch of oldies, I fitted the shock.

Its a CBR 1100 XX Blackbird shock. It has a liniar spring and stands 320mm tall. It has adjustable dampening and other stuff I dont know wtf Im talking about.  Grin It lacks a piggyback resevoir or other fancy gimmicks. I was told all Blackbird models use the same rear shock. So model year shouldn t make a difference.

What I do know is the following:

- it fits. bolt on job. 1 on 1 without any problems. Use the CB-1's bolts n nuts to mount it
- no need to vile anywhere like Mike Fellows posted on the CB-1 facebook: all adjustment screws are reachable when mounting as-is it seems
- 30 mins work with the help of a winch
- bike stands taller than standard but the same height as my previous unknown frankenshock (which was also 320 mm tall, incidently). Fitting a Blackbird shock -will- require you to fit a longer sidestand due to lean angle & tipping over.
- for my weight (70 KG) it seems to be working just fine. Its not sagging or bottoming out or behaving out of the ordinary. it feels firm and planted so far (couldnt ride hard on the test trip: wet roads)
- I didnt adjust any settings: seems perfectly balanced from the get go (cannot confirm if the previous owner of the shock has been fiddling with the settings)

Cost me 50 for the shock and 23 to fit it at the shop where I did most of the work meself.

Gonna depart for Brno racetrack tomorrow. Will report back after giving Ceebee a proper trashing.

If I dont report back at all, feel free to assume a Blackbird shock on a CB-1 is NOT reccomended for track use. Roll Eyes

I also weigh 70kg, so I am interested in your results!

Have a great time at Brno.

Thanks. Will update after I come back.
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2017, 01:31:01 PM »

Hi Jerry, I'm really struggling to re-read through all your notes. Can you tell me if you came to a definitive conclusion on the HONDA CBR1000RR 08>11 rear shock as an option please?

It has the fixed reservoir at the top (with no apparent adjustment on it), apparently quite short damper movement, and spring adjustment at the bottom. Not sure how easy it would be to either fit or adjust in service.

Is there even enough space at the top for that reservoir? Can it be remotely relocated using a tube? Is that desirable/safe? Are any of the parts useful for a Frankenstein shock?
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VintageHunter
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« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2017, 01:35:20 PM »

Moderate:
I think you should really try to find a CBR900rr rear shock and do the transplant of the CB1 spring into it.
I feel this "rear shock" analysis is one of the those things that you chew and chew and chew on it for a decade to come realize...if I had just used a wooden pencil instead of trying to "reinvent" the pencil Ida saved me a lot of grief.....but I suppose sometimes within all that "research" something could crop up that makes it all worth  the while. Seems that if others have proven the CBR900rr transplant over and over again...and it's cheap way to make your rear feel better.......why not just go with it? Unless, the CBR900rr shock is complete "unobtanium" in yer neck of the world?
Hi Jerry, I'm really struggling to re-read through all your notes. Can you tell me if you came to a definitive conclusion on the HONDA CBR1000RR 08>11 rear shock as an option please?

It has the fixed reservoir at the top (with no apparent adjustment on it), apparently quite short damper movement, and spring adjustment at the bottom. Not sure how easy it would be to either fit or adjust in service.

Is there even enough space at the top for that reservoir? Can it be remotely relocated using a tube? Is that desirable/safe? Are any of the parts useful for a Frankenstein shock?
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spacetiger
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« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2017, 09:00:16 PM »

Hi Jerry, I'm really struggling to re-read through all your notes. Can you tell me if you came to a definitive conclusion on the HONDA CBR1000RR 08>11 rear shock as an option please?

It has the fixed reservoir at the top (with no apparent adjustment on it), apparently quite short damper movement, and spring adjustment at the bottom. Not sure how easy it would be to either fit or adjust in service.

Is there even enough space at the top for that reservoir? Can it be remotely relocated using a tube? Is that desirable/safe? Are any of the parts useful for a Frankenstein shock?

MF,

I tried a few other fix reservoir shocks - none will fit; thats why I was surprised the shock I did go with fit with the [semi]remote preload adjuster.You can see by the CBR1000RR shock by the time you get the top in, the reservoir would be pointing right up into the tank!

It looks like the BB shock will bolt it, but the CBR900 looks to me to be the superior shock.  I think that with the right spring  is a tough combination that is going to hard to beat.  The only reason I'm still going down my path is I'm likely to use that same shock in another bike, so learning on this one will make the other project go easier.  Only the valving will be different. 

Speaking of which, I can add clarifying comments to my thread if it will help clarify what I was trying to convey. It does noone any good to leave as is if noone understands what I am doing.  Let me know, there are no dumb comments, really.

Back to the Cbr900 shock - can you get one where you are?

Jerry   
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2017, 10:22:31 PM »

Hi Jerry, I'm really struggling to re-read through all your notes. Can you tell me if you came to a definitive conclusion on the HONDA CBR1000RR 08>11 rear shock as an option please?

It has the fixed reservoir at the top (with no apparent adjustment on it), apparently quite short damper movement, and spring adjustment at the bottom. Not sure how easy it would be to either fit or adjust in service.

Is there even enough space at the top for that reservoir? Can it be remotely relocated using a tube? Is that desirable/safe? Are any of the parts useful for a Frankenstein shock?

MF,

I tried a few other fix reservoir shocks - none will fit; thats why I was surprised the shock I did go with fit with the [semi]remote preload adjuster.You can see by the CBR1000RR shock by the time you get the top in, the reservoir would be pointing right up into the tank!

It looks like the BB shock will bolt it, but the CBR900 looks to me to be the superior shock.  I think that with the right spring  is a tough combination that is going to hard to beat.  The only reason I'm still going down my path is I'm likely to use that same shock in another bike, so learning on this one will make the other project go easier.  Only the valving will be different. 

Speaking of which, I can add clarifying comments to my thread if it will help clarify what I was trying to convey. It does noone any good to leave as is if noone understands what I am doing.  Let me know, there are no dumb comments, really.

Back to the Cbr900 shock - can you get one where you are?

Jerry   

I'm really glad you said that Jerry. Trying to read this work on my phone is a nightmare. I'm sure I'll get it just fine when I can easily flip back and forth with the photos wholly in view.

That was what I was concerned about with the funny angle of the reservoir on the CBR1000 shock. I'm guessing if it pointed straight down there wouldn't be an issue. Shame. I can find them here.

I trust your take on the CBR900 option with a tougher spring, especially with my weight. I just need to locate one. They seem to be rare at the moment in the UK. I should check out some local breakers. The good ones I know are miles away.

I still haven't got my bike onto a guaranteed flat surface. On my concrete path I'm getting a gap of 911 pages of a Cromwell tool catalogue, with a good tyre with plenty of wear and no sign of flattening. Take your average big thick tool catalogue with thin pages, and you'll know why I used it. On my vernier callipers that translates to a loose 30mm. So I'm wondering if my shock is already lengthened a little. The spring is red. I'm fairly certain it's a two stage spring. Or it could be the path.

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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2017, 11:11:41 PM »

Hi Jerry, I've sent you a PM due to the specific nature of my enquiry.
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Dash
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« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2017, 09:22:07 AM »

Ok, Im back and still alive. That's +1 for the Blackbird shock. Cheesy

Because Im lazy, Ill just quote my post in the BB shock thread since it pretty much sums up this mod:

Quote

Word.

Just put the CB-1 wth Blackbird shock through its paces at Brno. Holy sheet.  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

One of the best kept CB-1 secrets Id say.

Im 70 KG and the rear was planted like a tree. And I wasn t being subtle around the corners. The thing was amazing. Not once did the bike wobble, bounce or flinch.

Im sure faster riders than me, who know their way around the mysteries of suspension ( I still deem it all black magic) can give a better writeup. But to summarize:

If you re light like me, the BB shock offers a direct bolt on solution with very, very decent handling characteristics. Far better than the standard shock. Im sure other shocks are even more suited for the job.

But as far as cheap, easy replacements go for non-fatties in search of a new rear shock: The Blackbird shock is where it's at.  Wink
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VintageHunter
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« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2017, 11:26:23 AM »

So...while I appreciate all the "tech" and "R&D" being done on this rear shock issue.....I'd like to ask a simple question(s):
I'm a slow-witted person. I don't really understand too well all the charts, graphs, mathematics, damping, stroke length, etc....so again, if someone could simply explain the answer in simple terms.

1) If you acquire a 900rr rear shock and remove it's current spring, what weight spring can you put in it to be effective for a 200lb rider?
1300lb? 1400lb 1500lb?

2) if you stick with the CB1 rear shock and swap out that "2-stage spring", same as above...what spring can be inserted into the original CB1 shock assembly?
1300lb? 1400lb 1500lb?

that's all that I'm looking for.
you might say..."what diff does it make you already made the transplant" but I may want to swap out the current CB1 spring in the 900rr shock to a better spring, so which one? 1300lb, 1400lb or 1500lb spring?

thanks for all the research you guys have done. it's tremendous.

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a_morti
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« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2017, 12:07:48 PM »

So...while I appreciate all the "tech" and "R&D" being done on this rear shock issue.....I'd like to ask a simple question(s):
I'm a slow-witted person. I don't really understand too well all the charts, graphs, mathematics, damping, stroke length, etc....so again, if someone could simply explain the answer in simple terms.

1) If you acquire a 900rr rear shock and remove it's current spring, what weight spring can you put in it to be effective for a 200lb rider?
1300lb? 1400lb 1500lb?

2) if you stick with the CB1 rear shock and swap out that "2-stage spring", same as above...what spring can be inserted into the original CB1 shock assembly?
1300lb? 1400lb 1500lb?

that's all that I'm looking for.
you might say..."what diff does it make you already made the transplant" but I may want to swap out the current CB1 spring in the 900rr shock to a better spring, so which one? 1300lb, 1400lb or 1500lb spring?

thanks for all the research you guys have done. it's tremendous.


I guess a spring is a spring in the end of the day. Racetech have an app which helps you select springs, so I'd go there and enter cb-1 and your weight, see what spring they come up with. As the cbr shock is for a shorter spring, you then order a spring in that weight,  for the cbr shock.

Only potential problem is the damping not coping with that rate spring, idk
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