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Author Topic: Need suggestions for new front end  (Read 792 times)
Dash
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« on: June 30, 2017, 09:26:37 AM »

Now that the rear is sorted, I wanna focus on the front of the bike.

The fork seals start sweating and leaking quite often because of small pits in the forks. This is a recurring and annoying issue. So I wanna solve this problem and use the occasion to swap in a different front end for a bit of an upgrade. Maybe even something with dual discs and calipers so I can brake even later  Roll Eyes

So please guys, shower me with your wisdom: what front ends can I fit on the standard triple clamp of the CB-1 without too much trouble? (Im thinking stuff like CBR 400, 600 F etc.)
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a_morti
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 12:29:07 PM »

How much upgrading do you want to do? 96-97 cbr900 forks fit easily, even the steering lock works with minimal filing. You do need to kludge a mounting for the headlight and clocks though, and the Cbr handlebars are below the triple. If not in to kludging, I got a custom cnc top triple with clock and headlight mounts built in. These accept the late Cbr calipers (see below).

As for stock triples, there is an amazing degree o parts interchangeability on Showa 41mm forks. I guess the top evolution is f3? You can fit them right in. They are longer so will protrude out the clip ons (guess not a big deal). If you want a 3 spoke twin disc wheel, look at early blackbird, vtr1000f, 400sf, nc23... Lots of options.

You'll need to work something out with mudguards, the brackets are different. Or you could fit the CB-1 lowers to those forks if you're ok with CB-1 brakes in the end. Perhaps a later 3 pot Nissin caliper helps, if you delink it?

If you want to get great brakes, I guess you need those f3 forks, but with vtr 1000f forks lower which should bolt right on. The vtr calipers are ok but with just a little filing they give access to 4 pot calipers such as the big nissins off a 929/954/600rr.
Bear in mind you also need the corresponding master cylinder.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:34:37 PM by a_morti » Logged

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Dash
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2017, 01:48:37 PM »

How much upgrading do you want to do? 96-97 cbr900 forks fit easily, even the steering lock works with minimal filing. You do need to kludge a mounting for the headlight and clocks though, and the Cbr handlebars are below the triple. If not in to kludging, I got a custom cnc top triple with clock and headlight mounts built in. These accept the late Cbr calipers (see below).

As for stock triples, there is an amazing degree o parts interchangeability on Showa 41mm forks. I guess the top evolution is f3? You can fit them right in. They are longer so will protrude out the clip ons (guess not a big deal). If you want a 3 spoke twin disc wheel, look at early blackbird, vtr1000f, 400sf, nc23... Lots of options.

You'll need to work something out with mudguards, the brackets are different. Or you could fit the CB-1 lowers to those forks if you're ok with CB-1 brakes in the end. Perhaps a later 3 pot Nissin caliper helps, if you delink it?

If you want to get great brakes, I guess you need those f3 forks, but with vtr 1000f forks lower which should bolt right on. The vtr calipers are ok but with just a little filing they give access to 4 pot calipers such as the big nissins off a 929/954/600rr.
Bear in mind you also need the corresponding master cylinder.

Something to keep in mind with my bike is that it has risers and handlebars fitted. So no clip ons. This makes matters a little easier in some aspects but complicates matters if the forks must protrude out of the triple clamp since the will get in the way of the handlebar.

Im not looking for massive improvements. In fact, Im happy with forks that fit without having to adjust or costumize half the front end. Tongue Keeping in mind what the bike's worth, I dont want to blow a lot of money and time on this. Its kinda like with the rear shock: Im looking for a cheap and easy replacement without expecting it to turn the CB into a motogp machine.

So, to be more precise what Im looking for is a new front end that:

- is relatively cheap & easy to find
- bolts right on without modifications to the bike
- allows me to keep my current brake setup
- -if possible- improves the front suspension a little (Note: I already have Hyperpro springs fitted, would like to carry these over)

« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 01:54:39 PM by Dash » Logged
a_morti
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2017, 02:10:45 PM »

Most forks with superior damping are longer than stock, so you will have an issue of them fighting your handlebar for space.

It sounds like what you really want is a pair of replacement legs. Perhaps made up to be shorter since you no longer have clips above the yoke.

Not sure they'll be any easier to find but maybe nc29 forks would be an idea? Again, can bolt your fork bottoms to those and keep brakes and mudguard.

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Dash
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2017, 03:39:31 PM »

Most forks with superior damping are longer than stock, so you will have an issue of them fighting your handlebar for space.

It sounds like what you really want is a pair of replacement legs. Perhaps made up to be shorter since you no longer have clips above the yoke.

Not sure they'll be any easier to find but maybe nc29 forks would be an idea? Again, can bolt your fork bottoms to those and keep brakes and mudguard.



Yeah, reading your replies I ve come to the same conclusion. What I need are new tops. the bottom legs seem to be fine. So either I need new CB-1 forks or just new upper forks that fit the CB-1 bottom forks. Which makes me wonder, which upper forks are as long as the CB's and fit in the lower CB fork apart from the NC29?

Id reckon upper Hawk forks would do the trick as well? Id need forks that are easy to find. CBR 400 and Hawk forks aren't...
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a_morti
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2017, 03:49:04 PM »

You're in cz, is that right? Guess you're looking for any model which did well in Europe.

Rc42, perhaps?

Couple ideas from eBay Germany

http://m.ebay.de/itm/Honda-VFR-Rc-36-Gabel-komplett-/282549190192?hash=item41c93e7e30%3Ag%3AB6cAAOSw0j9ZOYfo&_trkparms=pageci%253Afc6d4393-5dcc-11e7-8b68-74dbd180e0a2%257Cparentrq%253Afa8b7de815c0abda6d44d90ffff7731d%257Ciid%253A4

http://m.ebay.de/itm/Letzte-Chance-Honda-NT650-Hawk-GT-RC31-GT647-Telegabel-komplett-/182637015818?fits=DEM_Make%3AHonda&hash=item2a8603b30a%3Ag%3A1d0AAOSwbtVZOWNj&_trkparms=pageci%253A20fb2cd9-5dcd-11e7-bf83-74dbd18077a8%257Cparentrq%253Afa8c6d7915c0abd99d190ac0fff85558%257Ciid%253A6
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Sugs
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2017, 01:21:29 AM »

Gotta be someplace in Europe that can recondition, rechrome and repolish the upper tubes.  A few here in the U.S.  If your pitting isn't too bad, you can try a small fine diamond sharpening stone.  A buddy of mine turned me on to this and it worked great on my leaking forks, and so far no new leaks.  I just ran the stone up and down the fork tube over the pits until I couldn't feel them anymore.
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Dash
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2017, 06:56:31 AM »


Im in Holland. I was in CZ for the track Wink

So I understand correctly that the Hawk uppers will fit the CB-1 lowers? Would that also mean the uppers from the NTV (revere) will also work?

In that case the 2nd link might be worth a shot. Just need to be sure it will fit.


Gotta be someplace in Europe that can recondition, rechrome and repolish the upper tubes.  A few here in the U.S.  If your pitting isn't too bad, you can try a small fine diamond sharpening stone.  A buddy of mine turned me on to this and it worked great on my leaking forks, and so far no new leaks.  I just ran the stone up and down the fork tube over the pits until I couldn't feel them anymore.

No such thing near here. Besides, the pitting is pretty severe. Im not confident enough trying to patch them up will fix the issue. I do appriciate the suggestion though.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 07:01:08 AM by Dash » Logged
a_morti
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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2017, 03:09:30 PM »

Yep. All period honda showa 41mm damper rod forks use the same fitting to attach the top and bottom as far as i have seen.
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Dash
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2017, 08:34:54 AM »

Im told the NTV (Revere), which also has 41mm forks, has slightly shorter forks.

Are Hawk and CB-1 top forks the same lenght?
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Pod70
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 06:36:52 AM »

Hello Dash,
If you're looking to stick with 41mm Honda forks then the following might help:
CB-1 Forks 615mm long
NC23 (CBR400 Tri-arm) forks 598mm
NC29 (CBR400 Gull arm) forks 572mm - This would bring your front end back to around stock height allowing for the dropped forks due to the handlebar conversion.
NTV650 REVERE 88-92 600mm

If you want to swap in a CBR400/ NVT650 front, I probably have a spare left hand fork leg, caliper & NC23 wheel (3 spoke) which I could sell.
The problem I have found with buying 2nd hand forks is that generally the chrome on the stanchions is as pitted as the ones you are looking to replace but you can buy new stanchions from http://www.allbikeengineering.co.uk/forks.php. I bought a set for the race bike with seals and bushes and it came to around 220.

If it helps I'd be happy to get new stanchions delivered to me and send them on with the other parts. You will need to play around with the length of the spacer tubes but I've got a friend who races an NC29 so we could measure his as a start point.
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spacetiger
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 10:49:41 AM »

A few rambling thoughts since you will stay with a damper rod setup.

- trying to match fork lengths with thought of swapping "new bits" from "new fork" to cb lowers might not produce results you are looking for. The damper rod varies in length. It sets the suspension working range so you need to know what length you have. You could take a shorter fork and use longer damper rod to lengthen the fork - or other way around. Try cross referencing part numbers if needed.

- fork spacer length important to set prepare distance. That means it is unique to you and is determined by setting rider sag.

With slightly longer rear shock for the rear be mindful of your changes so they work together
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 11:55:37 AM by spacetiger » Logged
Dash
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 11:36:46 AM »

Thanks for the input guys.

I found some decent 2nd hand Hawk uppers. They re the same lenght as the CB-1s uppers, I believe. So nothing should change... I hope Shocked
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 08:51:52 AM »

In case you havent noticed, i raced my CB-1 with a great deal of success. Just my 2 cents, but not really a need for a dual disk set up on the front.  I added stainless steel braided brake line, heavier fork springs  and a heavier fork oil, and Gold Valve Fork Emulators. I always used the stock brake pads. My front end performance has been spectacular! I constantly kept moving my brake marks deeper and deeper!  I never experienced the faded that others have spoke about...
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Dash
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2017, 05:13:34 AM »

In case you havent noticed, i raced my CB-1 with a great deal of success. Just my 2 cents, but not really a need for a dual disk set up on the front.  I added stainless steel braided brake line, heavier fork springs  and a heavier fork oil, and Gold Valve Fork Emulators. I always used the stock brake pads. My front end performance has been spectacular! I constantly kept moving my brake marks deeper and deeper!  I never experienced the faded that others have spoke about...

Yeah. Im sticking with my normal front end. Right now the plan is as follows:

- Hawk uppers
- CB-1 lowers
- CB-1 brake
- cintered pads
- Hyperpro progressive springs
- SAE 15 oil (thicker than the SAE 10 that Hyperpro prescribes)
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