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Author Topic: Headstock Bearings  (Read 446 times)
filterMan
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« on: July 26, 2017, 10:26:17 AM »

Hi Guys,

I took my bike for it's MOT test today and it passed with no major problems \o/. The tester did note that I have slight play in the headstock bearings. He is correct, you can just feel it although it's not severe. It probably needs a new set putting in soon.

I can do most things but I've never done this on any bike, is it something I can do at home, in my back yard, probably in the rain, without specialist tools?

And does anyone know if this is the correct bearings I should order? I guess headrace = headstock in the description?

http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/honda/cb-1_cb_400_f__nc27_japanese_market/89-90/picture/tapered_headrace_bearing_set_by_all_balls_usa/

Cheers
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 12:18:37 PM »

Hi Guys,

I took my bike for it's MOT test today and it passed with no major problems \o/. The tester did note that I have slight play in the headstock bearings. He is correct, you can just feel it although it's not severe. It probably needs a new set putting in soon.

I can do most things but I've never done this on any bike, is it something I can do at home, in my back yard, probably in the rain, without specialist tools?

And does anyone know if this is the correct bearings I should order? I guess headrace = headstock in the description?

http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/honda/cb-1_cb_400_f__nc27_japanese_market/89-90/picture/tapered_headrace_bearing_set_by_all_balls_usa/

Cheers

This guy seems to know his onions filterMan

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CRVhPmb7qXo

Others here will have actual specific hands on experience of this job on the CB-1. But he's the cautious type who gives you the general heads up on the job you may need to do. Dust free environment would be best of course. Do it in a mini marquee on the lawn Wink I'm only half jesting. It's what competition teams do. I've got an Ezee-up that's great for such work. The latest equivalent is a seasonal item at Costco - best wholesale outlet in UK. Costs about 25 a year to be a member.

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Dash
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 02:23:14 PM »

As far as Ive seen you will need a special tool to 'ram' the bearings in place.
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filterMan
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 04:28:37 PM »

Thanks guys,

Delboy's Garage has a YouTube video that I just watched and it looks relatively simple. It was on a Kawasiki, I'm guessing it's a similar job on the CB-1. Not one for doing in the rain though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvgIRuRHSrQ

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See Bee-Won
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 04:54:49 PM »

Might just need repacked with grease and adjusted. One of those things that is supposed to be done every 12K mi. and ends up being done never.  Grin
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a_morti
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 07:03:40 PM »

Nothing special about doing the job on a cb-1. The only difficult thing is getting the race off the bottom yoke and you can usually drift it away rather than use a proper puller but you'll need patience and a chisel or screwdriver you don't mind wrecking.

Old Haynes tip is use a bit of threaded rod and the old race to drive the new races into the frame. Really works too
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Cam Drive Gear Train Smiley
ModerateFkr
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 10:32:05 PM »

Thanks guys,

Delboy's Garage has a YouTube video that I just watched and it looks relatively simple. It was on a Kawasiki, I'm guessing it's a similar job on the CB-1. Not one for doing in the rain though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvgIRuRHSrQ



Delboy is fairly good filterMan, but some of his methods are as dodgy as his namesake, namely the way he abuses the handles of his screwdrivers and his use of emery paper without them thoroughly cleaning not only the area he's just rubbed, but the full length of the tube below. He's literally just introduced one the most abrasive materials into a bearing environment, absolutely guaranteeing to shorten the life of those bearings.

Nylon mallets used to be very expensive, and were developed specially for the aircraft industry, but these days they're much more easily available. There are two basic sizes. They have nylon handles, steel heads and nylon faces screwed into them. Grab one. It will literally solve many problems like those you'll encounter here.

When drifting off the lower bearing centre ring from the tube next to the lower yoke, once you've got a thin wedge/screwdriver in there, slip a piece of copper or brass (an opened up piece of coppe water pipe or the earth terminal from a scrap 13 amp plug) down, and then use the same wedge/screwdriver again. This will help prevent the damage to the seat. You can add thicknesses of steel next to the copper or brass, and then you never need to progress to a rough arsed builder's chisel.

Actually, the more I think about that vid, the more I cringe at the prospect of finding a bike he's worked on.

a_morti's Haynes tip is brilliant. Anything that can be banged in by a monkey, can be better drifted in using a well fitting mandrel (specialist tool or something you turn on a lathe), or much better drawn in using a threaded bar, four penny washers, two small squares of plywood with holes in the centre, the old bearings and two nuts. The extra washers are to create a bearing surface for the pulling process. Turn them so their smooth edges are facing each other. Makes all the difference.

No, I'm not about to start making vids Wink But I will post a photo when I make my next one.

Pack the area above the bottom bearing with grease. It will feed down in warm weather and protect the most vulnerable area for the longest. Check your forks after 50-100 miles in the way he describes. They might need tightening a little. And don't let that hot chick from California do stunts on your bike Wink
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 11:23:46 PM »

Nearly forgot, you can use a short piece of plastic water pipe to drift the new bottom bearing into place rather than hammering the bugger. It's not rocket science, but you don't need specialist tools either. You can make them from scrap stuff.

Also, if you can find some small pieces of real hardwood such as mahogany (not the shite they call mahogany these days), you can fashion a two part mandrel to remove the inner lower unit from the head tube. I fitted a new bush to the rear suspension arm of a Ford with a pair of stepped mandrels made of hardwood (using a pilar drill and counterbore cutters) and an old engineers vice.

A note in the threaded bar mandrel idea:

The threads on threaded bar are rolled and nasty. Use the biggest diameter you can find that will fit. This will give you greater control and help keep the pulling process squarer. You'll also have greater mechanical advantage and will be able to tell if the bearing is going in straight. 20-30mm would be good. Clean down to the roots of at least the length of thread you're going to use really well, then run a similarly cleaned nut all the way down the area where you're going to be tightening it, then assemble the jig and lubricate the thread. That's as good as a specialist tool for less than 10.

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filterMan
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 03:48:49 AM »

Thanks guys for all your helpful advice.

After reviewing all the videos I can find I reckon I'll be giving this a go for sure.

See Bee-Won, you might be correct about just re-packing and adjusting the bearings. The movement is nice and fluid still, there is not a hint anything catching. But if I'm going to strip down the front end and inspect the bearings I guess I might just as well replace them as they are not expensive.

And ModerateFkf, I agree I was thinking Delboy was a bit rough with that chisel and sand paper, good tip about putting a soft metal behind the bearing collar, and if I can find a Californian girl near me she can do stunts on my bike any time  Grin
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a_morti
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 03:57:55 AM »

Good point on threaded bar quality. The bit I have came from the dockyard. Can't remember the size but I believe the nuts were 24mm, so it's good sized stuff.

That's one of those tools which I now consider specialist but essential. Same as an impact gun for fork damper rod bolts and front sprockets.
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filterMan
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 05:45:57 AM »

Do I understand correctly about the threaded bar idea? it's better not to drift the bottom bearing in with the old bearing to protect it, but pull it in with a fairly wide threaded bar through the shaft and some nuts and probably washers top and bottom?

Also apart from the two seals that come with the bearing kit is there anything else you can think of I need to order for the job?
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a_morti
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 05:54:48 AM »

That's it fm. Removes the possibility of damaging the race on installation.

Shouldn't need anything else. Assuming you have some thick grease to hand.

If you don't have a c spanner (ideally a pair) you'll find the job harder than it needs to be.
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Pod70
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 08:25:43 AM »

Place the bearing races in the freezer overnight and they will contract slightly making them easier to fit into the headstock.

If your steering doesn't feel notchy at the moment then really they probably just need greasing and tightening up rather than all the hassle of replacing
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filterMan
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2017, 09:05:31 AM »

Pod70, I was wondering that but don't I still need to strip the front end anyway just to get the bearings out and re-grease them? Isn't that a lot of the job done already? Or is it a real PIA to knock the old ones out?
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2017, 02:47:31 PM »

Pod70, I was wondering that but don't I still need to strip the front end anyway just to get the bearings out and re-grease them? Isn't that a lot of the job done already? Or is it a real PIA to knock the old ones out?

filterMan, You can wash the roller sets, blow dry them, and degrease them in situ without disturbing the lower or upper ones. If they look super clean, not rusty and aren't pitted, you can often get away with just packing them with grease. Run the existing grease between your fingers to see if it's gritty.

Does anyone else miss grease nipples? Yep, I'm THAT old! There's a vid floating around of the service routines for Supermarine Spitfires. No computers of course, but their predecessors and lots of good practice.

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