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Author Topic: Latest issue of Practical Sports Bikes  (Read 794 times)
ModerateFkr
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« on: August 16, 2017, 09:29:10 PM »

The latest issue of Practical Sports Bikes in UK has a great article on a modified version of the bike that's credited with being the first factory naked sports bike or streetfighter: the Ducati Monster M600.

But we know that bike was actually preceded by Honda's 400cc CB-1 a full nine years earlier, which was almost as powerful!

Have to admit that I really like the looks of Ducatis. But I'm seriously looking forward to meeting one on the road one day and showing it what 30 year old Japanese tech and an engine only 2/3 it's size can do.

I'd share a pic, but I still can't load photos on here. Has anyone got any influence with the site owner?
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VintageHunter
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 09:40:54 PM »

I used to be a fan of the Duc.
Not so more now. They don't make anything other than a twin-whatever and I've grown to dislike the twin feel......."the TORQUE dude....the torque the torque...it's about the TORQUE"
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 11:29:57 PM »

I used to be a fan of the Duc.
Not so more now. They don't make anything other than a twin-whatever and I've grown to dislike the twin feel......."the TORQUE dude....the torque the torque...it's about the TORQUE"


There's something about those Italian bikes I can't ignore. They're like Swedish steam bent wood. Only the Swedes know how to do that right, and only the Italians REALLY know how to style bikes. I can sit and follow the lines of an MV or a Duke all day and not find anything to really fault. The 2009 Brutsle is almost seemless. There's a luxury car dealership near me that got a few in their showroom. In 2010 they had the '09 models on sale at 25% discount - and 0% finance!!! Those same bikes are only worth £1000 less than that today! And that's the other reason to like them.

Every country has its own design ethos. I do like Japanese styling at its best. The CB-1 is a perfect example. But they seem to lack the confidence to express themselves. Instead they build two wheeled freight containers and Harley copies. Such a waste c

This game is addictive isn't it?

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Dash
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 05:18:24 AM »

Having owned the newer (compared to the M600) monster (620 IE S) for a while, Im fairly confident when I say the CB-1 would murder it.

- The CB has a higher top speed
- achieves this top speed quicker
- revs faster and higher(duh)
- the Monster isn t even terribly quick from the line. A mate in his BMW Z3 was poking my arse when we did a traffic light sprint
- Monster has low ground clearance which seriously hampers enthousiastic  cornering

BUT

- Monster weighs less
- Monster has -epic- brakes. Seriously. Best brakes Ive had the pleasure of using. it could stop on a nickle.
- Monster has glorious sound

The Monster is still a beatiful little bike to look at. It's not bad at all. But Im sure that if you put 1 rider on both bikes and make him do a lap of a track, the CB-1 would win. Probably...
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VintageHunter
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 09:49:59 AM »

there some things that are very nice about the I-talians designs. They do know how to make the bike parts fit well I'll give em that.
Like I said, was a fan, not so much anymore. Besides that the cost of maintenance on these machines are prohibitively expensive. I'm not that rich, yet, to afford a nice bike like the Penegale (sp?) to have sit in me carriage house to take out once in a while, though she may just be in my stable one day.....maybe.

Their styling is beautiful I'll give em that much.
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a_morti
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 10:04:39 AM »

Having owned the newer (compared to the M600) monster (620 IE S) for a while, Im fairly confident when I say the CB-1 would murder it.

- The CB has a higher top speed
- achieves this top speed quicker
- revs faster and higher(duh)
- the Monster isn t even terribly quick from the line. A mate in his BMW Z3 was poking my arse when we did a traffic light sprint
- Monster has low ground clearance which seriously hampers enthousiastic  cornering

BUT

- Monster weighs less
- Monster has -epic- brakes. Seriously. Best brakes Ive had the pleasure of using. it could stop on a nickle.
- Monster has glorious sound

The Monster is still a beatiful little bike to look at. It's not bad at all. But Im sure that if you put 1 rider on both bikes and make him do a lap of a track, the CB-1 would win. Probably...
I had the same single brembo caliper on my old cb-1. It's really very effective. There's sort of a project underway through the Facebook group to have adapters made for a big fixed caliper. I reckon it'll be a very worthwhile mod. May end up taking brembo, may be for the similar (might say copy) gold nissin caliper.

I'd fit the seat of a monster on the back of most naked or streetfightered bikes. You just can't go wrong with it.
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Cam Drive Gear Train Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 11:06:08 AM »

I would agree that the Ducati Monsters are beautiful bikes, no doubt.  My current favorite is the 821 Dark.  I'm not sure about the older naked Ducati models, but one thing I've noticed about the newer ones is the very sportbike like riding position.  Very rearset and high foot controls and a big lean forward to the bars.  Might not be as bad for me as I'm 6'1" with long arms, but some of the people I've seen on them look like they are in the superman position.  Not for me.
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1979 Honda GL1000 Goldwing - 1990 Honda CB1
VintageHunter
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 11:27:51 AM »

the more that I stare at the stock CB1 the more I'm beginning to understand (and accept) that its pretty perfect just the way it is.
The tail on the CB1 is just right......but there are some who have modded it quite nicely I must say.
I could see a Duc Monster tail sitting on the CB1. it could work.

I'd fit the seat of a monster on the back of most naked or streetfightered bikes. You just can't go wrong with it.
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ModerateFkr
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 12:42:40 PM »

Having owned the newer (compared to the M600) monster (620 IE S) for a while, Im fairly confident when I say the CB-1 would murder it.

- The CB has a higher top speed
- achieves this top speed quicker
- revs faster and higher(duh)
- the Monster isn t even terribly quick from the line. A mate in his BMW Z3 was poking my arse when we did a traffic light sprint
- Monster has low ground clearance which seriously hampers enthousiastic  cornering

BUT

- Monster weighs less
- Monster has -epic- brakes. Seriously. Best brakes Ive had the pleasure of using. it could stop on a nickle.
- Monster has glorious sound

The Monster is still a beatiful little bike to look at. It's not bad at all. But Im sure that if you put 1 rider on both bikes and make him do a lap of a track, the CB-1 would win. Probably...

You're the oracle on this one a_morti. Experience is everything.

All I have to go on is my aesthetic instinct that tells me the Monster wants to be taken seriously, and ultimately succeeds best in that department.

The result of this reality is that we can buy the under appreciated and undervalued inspiration for a generation of bikes from at least three continents, and even manufacturers that didn't exist in 1989, for a fraction of the price.

The downside is that those looking to turn a profit would rather scrap a CB-1 than restore it! The consequences of that will be scarcely and possibly eventual higher values for CB-1s. So, is it time to start salting away CB-1s? Will any of us live long enough to see the day when enough people figure out what you already know? Wil it even matter if no one is allowed to ride them?

These are fairly weighty philosophical questions - but they're surprisingly relevant... Wink

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VintageHunter
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 12:55:43 PM »


You're the oracle on this one a_morti. Experience is everything.

All I have to go on is my aesthetic instinct that tells me the Monster wants to be taken seriously, and ultimately succeeds best in that department.

The result of this reality is that we can buy the under appreciated and undervalued inspiration for a generation of bikes from at least three continents, and even manufacturers that didn't exist in 1989, for a fraction of the price.

The downside is that those looking to turn a profit would rather scrap a CB-1 than restore it! The consequences of that will be scarcely and possibly eventual higher values for CB-1s. So, is it time to start salting away CB-1s? Will any of us live long enough to see the day when enough people figure out what you already know? Wil it even matter if no one is allowed to ride them?

These are fairly weighty philosophical questions - but they're surprisingly relevant... Wink



Aaron most certainly is....the oracle.
Time to start salting away CB1s? YES and parts too. I know of a few barns in the NE of the USA that are loaded to the rafters with CB1s and parts (bastards).
Will any of us live long enough to see the day.....? --------- I'm counting on it, at least I plan on living to my 3-digit number, that's the hope anyway.
Will it matter if no one is allowed to ride them? Who cares------I'll ride them anyway.
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a_morti
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 05:02:09 PM »

Oracle for a few things but unlike Dash, I've never ridden the older/smaller monster. Just a very short urban turn on the recent 822. The fuelling was horrific - I genuinely thought it was running out of fuel. The chassis felt very taught, brakes amazing (radial brembos) although the rear barely worked. As mentioned above it felt very sporty in terms of riding position.
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Cam Drive Gear Train Smiley
ModerateFkr
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 09:26:46 PM »

Aaron most certainly is....the oracle.
Time to start salting away CB1s? YES and parts too. I know of a few barns in the NE of the USA that are loaded to the rafters with CB1s and parts (bastards).
Will any of us live long enough to see the day.....? --------- I'm counting on it, at least I plan on living to my 3-digit number, that's the hope anyway.
Will it matter if no one is allowed to ride them? Who cares------I'll ride them anyway.


There are always speculators. They do their theng. But I always regard them as like Wiliam Randolph Hearst who used yellow journalism to raise support for a ban on hemp - because it threatened his interests in timber and paper, as well as his friends' interests in cotton, steel, oil, chèmicsls, pharmaceuticals etc.

It's better to be Steve McQueen.
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Dash
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2017, 05:48:50 AM »

Funny this discussion popped up. When I was at Zandvoort, a man approached me (among some others) and started chatting away about the CB-1 (Its a shame the CB-1 is apperantly a scruffy biker magnet, rather than a chick magnet Grin ).

He told me to hang on to the CB, even if I were to get a new bike. He thought the CB-1 would become some sort of valuable collecter's item. He may be right. On  the other hand, it's also very possible that the CB-1 will just fade away and be, undeservedly, forgotten in an era of HP-horny bikers and the upcoming reign of electric motorcycles.

(Ive already ordered a poster of me on the CB-1 for future remembrance  Roll Eyes)
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a_morti
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2017, 06:13:02 AM »

The little Cb has a funny place in motorcycle history. In the USA they were officially imported but under loved. Like the hawk they have a following but they won't ever match the hawk's cult status.

In the UK they were never officially imported but made it here at 10 years old by the container load from Japan as they started failing the sha'ken. That coincided perfectly with a new learner law of only being allowed 33hp. The Cb restricted well and was cheaper to insure than a hornet, so a large number of bikers my age (who turned 17 between 1999 and around 20005) had these as first bikes. I don't know though, I don't think bikes of this era will become classics like yesteryear.
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Cam Drive Gear Train Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2017, 09:39:47 AM »

......Like the hawk they have a following but they won't ever match the hawk's cult status.

give it 10 more years......you'll be pleasantly surprised sir.
The hawk following is over-rated. The CB1 is a sleeper when it comes to collect-ability, you'll see.
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