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Author Topic: Honda.....you'd better start listening - Yamaha XSR700 Coming to 'Merica in 2018  (Read 651 times)
a_morti
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2017, 08:14:59 AM »

You say that... but look at all the small and mid capacity bikes Japan is shipping lately, all right around 30-40hp.

CBR300, CBR250RR,  ZXR300, GSXR250, R3
CB300F, rebel 300, Z3, MT03

Lower tech than the 80s, but they're not built for people with money who couldn't have bigger, they're built for more budget conscious people.

Plus the 125 market is as alive as ever - just look at how well the Grom is doing worldwide. The sports 125s are kind of a joke compared to the 2T of old, but they're still there: CBR125, R125, GSXR125. Have you seen the new CB150R yet??

Then there's a raft of 500s, as there kinda always has been. And the Europeans with Duke/RC 125/390, BMW310. There's a 40hp 400cc Ducati Scrambler too.

I think times are better now for beginners and for those who don't feel they need >50hp than they have been for a very long time. In the 80/90s it was due to the 400cc limit in Japan. Nowadays it's due to a 48hp learner limit in Europe. You're welcome Smiley
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 08:20:11 AM by a_morti » Logged

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VintageHunter
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2017, 11:35:19 AM »

the Honda 300's are all crap.
the CB1 will never be remade. ever.
the engineering, tooling and milling of the CB1 can no longer be feasibly created. Honda is only looking after their bottom dollar these days as are the others.
I'd like to get a leg over the Yamaha R3. seems like a neat little thing to fart around with. Also on my leg-around list is the 390KTM single thumper.

Though, something bout an in-line4, 400cc engine that's gear driven that just has spirit. All of todays 300s are made for the Taiwanese market...not for the US market. If Honda were to truly be thinking about creating an entry bike for the US market, they'd dust off the 400 engine specs and start with the CB1 with modern componentry.

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jdg25
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2017, 11:49:34 AM »


Though, something bout an in-line4, 400cc engine that's gear driven that just has spirit. All of todays 300s are made for the Taiwanese market...not for the US market. If Honda were to truly be thinking about creating an entry bike for the US market, they'd dust off the 400 engine specs and start with the CB1 with modern componentry.



The CB400SF fits the bill minus the gear driven cam. Prob not imported because there isn't a market.
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VintageHunter
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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2017, 12:02:44 PM »

The CB400SF is a beautiful bike. Just not diggin' the dual shocks in back and the no-geared cam is a total bummer.
Other than those two important aspects, she's a looker.
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a_morti
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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2017, 01:26:44 PM »

They are still making the 400sf for the Japanese and Asian (and maybe Australian?). The most recent model got cool wheels, they've had abs, vtec and Efi for a little while, they have the same calipers as a 929/954 generation litre bike. I'd say there's enough high tech there to be getting along with, even if it's missing the cam gears?! Even if you don't like dual shocks they are reservoir type which has some bling factor.
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VintageHunter
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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2017, 01:31:17 PM »

and therein lies the hangup with all our so called "regulations" which do nothing but stifle progress.
I think here in the U.S. theres a different mind-set to the smaller cc bikes, I've said it in many posts and I'll continue to believe that.
In the near future.....very near future...a 2400cc engine wont be enough.
They are still making the 400sf for the Japanese and Asian (and maybe Australian?).............
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a_morti
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2017, 02:55:13 PM »

In general it's easier to get engines with smaller capacity per cylinder through regs, plus the 400sf has VTEC and efi... I can't believe they couldn't strap a catalyser on it, run it a bit leaner in the two valve range, and sell it anywhere in the world, if they thought it would sell.

In Europe the learner regs restrict you to a bike under 47hp, which must also be under a set power:weight ratio (the Duke 390 is under 47hp but has to be limited as it's so light), the bike must also have a design power rating not more than 94hp if it is to be limited to 47hp.

On that basis you see the current generation cb500 with 47hp although the old generation had around 65hp. You also had the early nc700 with 47hp, although they've now upped it to 750 and released it with full power. Ever wondered why the Africa twin with its 1000cc twin makes 94hp??

Anyway... Considering all the above and that no bike will be faster than any other in the learner licensing arena (unless one is over the minimum weight) - you may struggle to get people to pay may for a 400/4 than a 500/2.
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